Discussion:
Re Oracle Licensing
Dave
2018-11-13 20:04:53 UTC
Permalink
https://www.oracle.com/assets/data-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf
So, forgive me, but am I correct in thinking that my hot standby server
now has to be licensed? And is supposed to have been since 2014?

Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
before 2014?

Dave
--
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
Iggy Fernandez
2018-11-13 20:29:58 UTC
Permalink
The "policies" are explicitly non-contractual and may be revoked or changed by Oracle at any time. However, there is probably a good legal argument that you relied on them for guidance.


The Northern California Oracle Users Group is a volunteer-run 501(c)(3) organization that has been serving the Oracle Database community of Northern California for more than thirty years by organizing four conferences a year and publishing a quarterly journal. Download the complete digital archive of the NoCOUG Journal using: “wget www.nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_{2001..2018}{02..12..3}.pdf”.

________________________________
From: oracle-l-***@freelists.org <oracle-l-***@freelists.org> on behalf of Dave <***@1001111.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 12:04 PM
To: oracle-***@freelists.org
Subject: Re Oracle Licensing
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oracle.com%2Fassets%2Fdata-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=DAXUy4xmkTLIBWamQpQ%2F%2FkgcAV4XGnPQN%2FfvlhZtraE%3D&amp;reserved=0
So, forgive me, but am I correct in thinking that my hot standby server
now has to be licensed? And is supposed to have been since 2014?

Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
before 2014?

Dave
--
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freelists.org%2Fwebpage%2Foracle-l&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=TNBdId1eqdG0JkFsae77KICSAo79%2FCdS682SRrMHlAc%3D&amp;reserved=0
n***@gmail.com
2018-11-14 08:01:30 UTC
Permalink
A standby database ( and dev databases) has always* been licensable, and in
the same way as the primary. The only exceptions will be if you
specifically inserted a clause otherwise in your contract with Oracle, or
if you are using named user licensing. That is unlikely to say the least.
As an example, I offer the EMEA OLSA from June 2000
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/olsa-ire-v122304-070683.pdf note
the definition of processor.

I suspect this comes from the wording of the docs when Active Data Guard
arrived

"*Oracle Data Guard 11g*
. Is included with Oracle Database Enterprise Edition - it does not require a
separate license . It Includes all Data Guard capabilities from previous
releases and many
other new features that enhance data protection, high availability,
disaster recovery, and utilization of standby databases and systems"

The point of which was to distinguish between DataGuard being an EE feature
and Active Data Guard being chargeable and not to indicate that DR was
free.
Post by Iggy Fernandez
The "policies" are explicitly non-contractual and may be revoked or
changed by Oracle at any time. However, there is probably a good legal
argument that you relied on them for guidance.
*The Northern California Oracle Users Group is a volunteer-run 501(c)(3)
organization that has been serving the Oracle Database community of
Northern California for more than thirty years by organizing four
conferences a year and publishing a quarterly journal. Download the
complete digital archive of the NoCOUG Journal using: “wget
www.nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_{2001..2018}{02..12..3}.pdf
<http://www.nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_%7B2001..2018%7D%7B02..12..3%7D.pdf>”.*
------------------------------
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2018 12:04 PM
*Subject:* Re Oracle Licensing
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oracle.com%2Fassets%2Fdata-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=DAXUy4xmkTLIBWamQpQ%2F%2FkgcAV4XGnPQN%2FfvlhZtraE%3D&amp;reserved=0
So, forgive me, but am I correct in thinking that my hot standby server
now has to be licensed? And is supposed to have been since 2014?
Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
before 2014?
Dave
--
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freelists.org%2Fwebpage%2Foracle-l&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=TNBdId1eqdG0JkFsae77KICSAo79%2FCdS682SRrMHlAc%3D&amp;reserved=0
--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
http://www.orawin.info
l***@bluewin.ch
2018-11-14 08:34:02 UTC
Permalink
In this case the replication is on the storage tier. That is a lot different from Data Guard. Data Guard requires an instance running on the disaster site.
Storage replacation does not require that. It is not even necessary that Oracle Software is installed on the disaster site at all.
If it is installed, it might no be running. All of that can make a difference.
----UrsprÃŒngliche Nachricht----
Von : ***@gmail.com
Datum : 14/11/2018 - 09:01 (MN)
An : ***@hotmail.com
Cc : oracle-***@freelists.org, ***@1001111.com
Betreff : Re: Re Oracle Licensing
A standby database ( and dev databases) has always* been licensable, and in the same way as the primary. The only exceptions will be if you specifically inserted a clause otherwise in your contract with Oracle, or if you are using named user licensing. That is unlikely to say the least. As an example, I offer the EMEA OLSA from June 2000 http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/olsa-ire-v122304-070683.pdf note the definition of processor.
I suspect this comes from the wording of the docs when Active Data Guard arrived
"*Oracle Data Guard 11g*. Is included with Oracle Database Enterprise Edition - it does not require a separate license . It Includes all Data Guard capabilities from previous releases and many
other new features that enhance data protection, high availability, disaster recovery, and utilization of standby databases and systems"
The point of which was to distinguish between DataGuard being an EE feature and Active Data Guard being chargeable and not to indicate that DR was free.
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 8:31 PM Iggy Fernandez <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
The "policies" are explicitly non-contractual and may be revoked or changed by Oracle at any time. However, there is probably a good legal argument that you relied
on them for guidance.
The
Northern California Oracle Users Group is a volunteer-run 501(c)(3) organization that has been serving the Oracle Database community of Northern California for more than thirty years by organizing four conferences a year and publishing a quarterly journal.
Download the complete digital archive of the NoCOUG Journal using: “wget www.nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_{2001..2018}{02..12..3}.pdf”.
From: oracle-l-***@freelists.org <oracle-l-***@freelists.org> on behalf of Dave <***@1001111.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 12:04 PM
To: oracle-***@freelists.org
Subject: Re Oracle Licensing
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oracle.com%2Fassets%2Fdata-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=DAXUy4xmkTLIBWamQpQ%2F%2FkgcAV4XGnPQN%2FfvlhZtraE%3D&amp;reserved=0
So, forgive me, but am I correct in thinking that my hot standby server
now has to be licensed? And is supposed to have been since 2014?
Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
before 2014?
Dave
--
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freelists.org%2Fwebpage%2Foracle-l&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=TNBdId1eqdG0JkFsae77KICSAo79%2FCdS682SRrMHlAc%3D&amp;reserved=0
--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
http://www.orawin.info
n***@gmail.com
2018-11-14 16:07:04 UTC
Permalink
I was following up on Dave's

Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
Post by Dave
before 2014?
I hadn't realized it was a thread on storage replication to be honest
because of the subject line change. In any case, unless* hot standby *means
replicated data and not a second set of database processes I don't see how
the installed and running clause won't get you.
Post by Dave
In this case the replication is on the storage tier. That is a lot
different from Data Guard. Data Guard requires an instance running on the
disaster site.
Storage replacation does not require that. It is not even necessary that
Oracle Software is installed on the disaster site at all.
If it is installed, it might no be running. All of that can make a difference.
----UrsprÃŒngliche Nachricht----
Datum : 14/11/2018 - 09:01 (MN)
Betreff : Re: Re Oracle Licensing
A standby database ( and dev databases) has always* been licensable, and
in the same way as the primary. The only exceptions will be if you
specifically inserted a clause otherwise in your contract with Oracle, or
if you are using named user licensing. That is unlikely to say the least.
As an example, I offer the EMEA OLSA from June 2000
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/olsa-ire-v122304-070683.pdf
note the definition of processor.
I suspect this comes from the wording of the docs when Active Data Guard arrived
"*Oracle Data Guard 11g*
. Is included with Oracle Database Enterprise Edition - it does not
require a separate license . It Includes all Data Guard capabilities from
previous releases and many
other new features that enhance data protection, high availability,
disaster recovery, and utilization of standby databases and systems"
The point of which was to distinguish between DataGuard being an EE
feature and Active Data Guard being chargeable and not to indicate that DR
was free.
Post by Iggy Fernandez
The "policies" are explicitly non-contractual and may be revoked or
changed by Oracle at any time. However, there is probably a good legal
argument that you relied on them for guidance.
*The Northern California Oracle Users Group is a volunteer-run 501(c)(3)
organization that has been serving the Oracle Database community of
Northern California for more than thirty years by organizing four
conferences a year and publishing a quarterly journal. Download the
complete digital archive of the NoCOUG Journal using: “wget
www.nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_{2001..2018}{02..12..3}.pdf
<http://www.nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_%7B2001..2018%7D%7B02..12..3%7D.pdf>”.*
------------------------------
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2018 12:04 PM
*Subject:* Re Oracle Licensing
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oracle.com%2Fassets%2Fdata-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=DAXUy4xmkTLIBWamQpQ%2F%2FkgcAV4XGnPQN%2FfvlhZtraE%3D&amp;reserved=0
So, forgive me, but am I correct in thinking that my hot standby server
now has to be licensed? And is supposed to have been since 2014?
Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
before 2014?
Dave
--
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freelists.org%2Fwebpage%2Foracle-l&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=TNBdId1eqdG0JkFsae77KICSAo79%2FCdS682SRrMHlAc%3D&amp;reserved=0
--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
http://www.orawin.info
--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
http://www.orawin.info
Michael Brown
2018-11-14 17:01:59 UTC
Permalink
The licensing question for Dataguard vs. standby data was always “is PMON running?” If you are replicating Power binaries to x86, the software is not running (nor is it installed). I don’t see how you can be viewed as anything except having backups of both binaries and data until you hook the disk up to the correct machine architecture (and In my opinion, launch the binaries as well).

It could be terminology, Oracle hears standby as Dataguard which means pmon is running and must be licensed. If that does not describe environment, call it a live backup when talking to Oracle..

--
Michael Brown
Post by n***@gmail.com
I was following up on Dave's
Post by Dave
Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
before 2014?
I hadn't realized it was a thread on storage replication to be honest because of the subject line change. In any case, unless hot standby means replicated data and not a second set of database processes I don't see how the installed and running clause won't get you.
Post by Dave
In this case the replication is on the storage tier. That is a lot different from Data Guard. Data Guard requires an instance running on the disaster site.
Storage replacation does not require that. It is not even necessary that Oracle Software is installed on the disaster site at all.
If it is installed, it might no be running. All of that can make a difference.
----UrsprÃŒngliche Nachricht----
Datum : 14/11/2018 - 09:01 (MN)
Betreff : Re: Re Oracle Licensing
A standby database ( and dev databases) has always* been licensable, and in the same way as the primary. The only exceptions will be if you specifically inserted a clause otherwise in your contract with Oracle, or if you are using named user licensing. That is unlikely to say the least. As an example, I offer the EMEA OLSA from June 2000 http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/olsa-ire-v122304-070683.pdf note the definition of processor.
I suspect this comes from the wording of the docs when Active Data Guard arrived
"*Oracle Data Guard 11g*
. Is included with Oracle Database Enterprise Edition - it does not require a separate license . It Includes all Data Guard capabilities from previous releases and many
other new features that enhance data protection, high availability, disaster recovery, and utilization of standby databases and systems"
The point of which was to distinguish between DataGuard being an EE feature and Active Data Guard being chargeable and not to indicate that DR was free.
Post by Iggy Fernandez
The "policies" are explicitly non-contractual and may be revoked or changed by Oracle at any time. However, there is probably a good legal argument that you relied on them for guidance.
The Northern California Oracle Users Group is a volunteer-run 501(c)(3) organization that has been serving the Oracle Database community of Northern California for more than thirty years by organizing four conferences a year and publishing a quarterly journal. Download the complete digital archive of the NoCOUG Journal using: “wget www.nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_{2001..2018}{02..12..3}.pdf”.
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 12:04 PM
Subject: Re Oracle Licensing
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oracle.com%2Fassets%2Fdata-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=DAXUy4xmkTLIBWamQpQ%2F%2FkgcAV4XGnPQN%2FfvlhZtraE%3D&amp;reserved=0
So, forgive me, but am I correct in thinking that my hot standby server
now has to be licensed? And is supposed to have been since 2014?
Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
before 2014?
Dave
--
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freelists.org%2Fwebpage%2Foracle-l&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=TNBdId1eqdG0JkFsae77KICSAo79%2FCdS682SRrMHlAc%3D&amp;reserved=0
--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
http://www.orawin.info
--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
http://www.orawin.info
Mark W. Farnham
2018-11-14 19:19:03 UTC
Permalink
Regarding Licensing and the old saying about 10 foot poles, I’ll go Spinal Tap on that and say I wouldn’t touch Oracle Licensing with an 11 foot pole.



Decades ago someone established that the Oracle License terms at that time covered loading up and testing whether or not an Oracle backup could be recovered and started on a standby server.



That included doing test counts and comparative reports to be certain all the data was there.



I do not have an 11 foot pole nor an understanding whether that license and testing for fitness for purpose ( a multi-user data store that could be backed up to a remote location and periodically be sent incremental revisions proportional in size to the update volume to the remote location so that an up to date copy of the database could be available for recovery in case of the unavailability of the primary location) still holds legal water.



That pre-dated the observation circa 1995 that shutdown, copy, startup rename, recover through last available log and then start original database and resume recovery, could make available a “frozen” renamed version of the database (for testing data consistency if nothing else) while the continuous recovery resumed without re-instantiating the recovery database.



This observation literally led to a shout of “but you can’t resume recovery if you started it!” from the audience at what was then Open World by a not quite careful listener, while I was giving a talk about it. (I was among several practitioners of Oracle tech who independently discovered this rename on startup mount trick after copying the original database files, etc. locally, I make no claim to be first. It worked correctly at a large retail organization with offices in Lebanon, NH and Burlington, NJ from about 6.0.37. )

After my talk a project to productize and automate Standby Recovery was initiated and that eventually became DataGuard. Somewhere along the line license costs on any infrastructure used to test recoverability began to be promulgated. I’ve lost track of the exact order of that history.

I don’t know whether a search of your license will reveal a right to test whether or not a backup is truly recoverable and consistent with what it was supposed to be a backup of is still in there.



Good luck.



From: oracle-l-***@freelists.org [mailto:oracle-l-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Michael Brown
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 12:02 PM
To: ***@gmail.com
Cc: <***@bluewin.ch>; Iggy Fernandez; ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Re Oracle Licensing



The licensing question for Dataguard vs. standby data was always “is PMON running?” If you are replicating Power binaries to x86, the software is not running (nor is it installed). I don’t see how you can be viewed as anything except having backups of both binaries and data until you hook the disk up to the correct machine architecture (and In my opinion, launch the binaries as well).



It could be terminology, Oracle hears standby as Dataguard which means pmon is running and must be licensed. If that does not describe environment, call it a live backup when talking to Oracle..

--

Michael Brown




On Nov 14, 2018, at 11:07 AM, ***@gmail.com wrote:

I was following up on Dave's



Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
before 2014?



I hadn't realized it was a thread on storage replication to be honest because of the subject line change. In any case, unless hot standby means replicated data and not a second set of database processes I don't see how the installed and running clause won't get you.



On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 8:34 AM ***@bluewin.ch <***@bluewin.ch> wrote:

In this case the replication is on the storage tier. That is a lot different from Data Guard. Data Guard requires an instance running on the disaster site.

Storage replacation does not require that. It is not even necessary that Oracle Software is installed on the disaster site at all.

If it is installed, it might no be running. All of that can make a difference.

----UrsprÃŒngliche Nachricht----
Von : ***@gmail.com
Datum : 14/11/2018 - 09:01 (MN)
An : ***@hotmail.com
Cc : oracle-***@freelists.org, ***@1001111.com
Betreff : Re: Re Oracle Licensing

A standby database ( and dev databases) has always* been licensable, and in the same way as the primary. The only exceptions will be if you specifically inserted a clause otherwise in your contract with Oracle, or if you are using named user licensing. That is unlikely to say the least. As an example, I offer the EMEA OLSA from June 2000 http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/olsa-ire-v122304-070683.pdf note the definition of processor.



I suspect this comes from the wording of the docs when Active Data Guard arrived



"*Oracle Data Guard 11g*

. Is included with Oracle Database Enterprise Edition - it does not require a separate license . It Includes all Data Guard capabilities from previous releases and many
other new features that enhance data protection, high availability, disaster recovery, and utilization of standby databases and systems"



The point of which was to distinguish between DataGuard being an EE feature and Active Data Guard being chargeable and not to indicate that DR was free.



On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 8:31 PM Iggy Fernandez <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

The "policies" are explicitly non-contractual and may be revoked or changed by Oracle at any time. However, there is probably a good legal argument that you relied on them for guidance.



The Northern California Oracle Users Group is a volunteer-run 501(c)(3) organization that has been serving the Oracle Database community of Northern California for more than thirty years by organizing four conferences a year and publishing a quarterly journal. Download the complete digital archive of the NoCOUG Journal using: “wget www.nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_{2001..2018}{02..12..3}.pdf <http://www.nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_%7B2001..2018%7D%7B02..12..3%7D.pdf> ”.



_____

From: oracle-l-***@freelists.org <oracle-l-***@freelists.org> on behalf of Dave <***@1001111.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 12:04 PM
To: oracle-***@freelists.org
Subject: Re Oracle Licensing
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oracle.com%2Fassets%2Fdata-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oracle.com%2Fassets%2Fdata-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=DAXUy4xmkTLIBWamQpQ%2F%2FkgcAV4XGnPQN%2FfvlhZtraE%3D&amp;reserved=0> &amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=DAXUy4xmkTLIBWamQpQ%2F%2FkgcAV4XGnPQN%2FfvlhZtraE%3D&amp;reserved=0
So, forgive me, but am I correct in thinking that my hot standby server
now has to be licensed? And is supposed to have been since 2014?

Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
before 2014?

Dave
--
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freelists.org%2Fwebpage%2Foracle-l <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freelists.org%2Fwebpage%2Foracle-l&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=TNBdId1eqdG0JkFsae77KICSAo79%2FCdS682SRrMHlAc%3D&amp;reserved=0> &amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb144e6908e54b3be89608d649a3c0eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636777364993336976&amp;sdata=TNBdId1eqdG0JkFsae77KICSAo79%2FCdS682SRrMHlAc%3D&amp;reserved=0
--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
http://www.orawin.info
--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
http://www.orawin.info
Dave
2018-11-14 18:41:51 UTC
Permalink
Thanks to all who replied. No thanks to Oracle for forcing me to read
the license document again..... :(

Standard Edition: 2 CPUs per machine, 8 threads per CPU, as far as I am aware

Until that review what I recall is I am licensed to run on a maximum number
of CPU's per machine with a maximum number of threads. There is nothing about installs
and for many years/decades the definition of running a server was an open database.
Post by l***@bluewin.ch
A standby database ( and dev databases) has always* been licensable, and in the same way as the primary.
No, this is not true. Before 2000 no one, or very few, ran a hot standby, the hardware was too expensive.
In 2001 I set up a hot standby for a 2 node RAC (OPS as it was called then) with Oracle's help. It was
explicitly stated in the standard Oracle 8 documentation (Backup and Recovery manual :) that a hot standby
did not require a license until it was opened. Since the only time it would open is if production goes down,
the production license can be used.
Post by l***@bluewin.ch
I suspect this comes from the wording of the docs when Active Data Guard arrived
Nothing to do with it. No-one trusted RMAN or Data Guard when it arrived.
Now somewhere around that time came READ ONLY standbys and standbys you
could open and close and open again. Around that time came the up to 10 day
usage rule. And I guess a whole bunch of confusion. Typical Oracle.

Now I agree the above need to be licensed, but my hot standby never leaves mount state.
I don't need the 10 day rule. It is never usable while production is running.
Post by l***@bluewin.ch
The "policies" are explicitly non-contractual and may be revoked or changed by Oracle at any time. However, there is probably a good legal argument that you relied on them for guidance.
Yeah, I would agree. Problem is I am not qualified to assess the risk. Thats for legal. Of course explaining the practicalities of
licensing in an operations environment to legal is my job :(

No wonder I have not recommended Oracle to my clients for the past six years.

Anyway thanks to all for your help and input

Dave
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Senior Consultant, 1001111 Alberta Limited
***@1001111.com
403 399 2442
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Chris Taylor
2018-11-13 21:43:59 UTC
Permalink
In my companies case a running database requires installed binaries - which
is a licensing concern.

Oracle used to offer special/discounted licenses for standby servers though.

Chris
Post by Dave
https://www.oracle.com/assets/data-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf
So, forgive me, but am I correct in thinking that my hot standby server
now has to be licensed? And is supposed to have been since 2014?
Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
before 2014?
Dave
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Mladen Gogala
2018-11-13 22:18:56 UTC
Permalink
Actually, it doesn't. You can install SQL*Developer which contains
Oracle JDBC driver and can connect to almost anything newer than Oracle
8i. You can also install Instant*Client which is completely free and
also includes both JDBC and ODBC clients. Instant client contains
SQL*Plus. You can also install various open source GUI stuff on top of
the instant client. Most notable open source, GUI tools on top of the
instant client are DBeaver-CE, SQLSquirrel, Eclipse, DBD::Oracle and
Tora. SQL*Developer and SQLcl are free but not open source. I assure you
that all of the above can run Oracle queries.
Post by Chris Taylor
In my companies case a running database requires installed binaries -
which is a licensing concern.
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Database Consultant
Tel: (347) 321-1217

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Chris Taylor
2018-11-13 23:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Mladen,

I'm confused. How does that apply to a running instance? A running
instance requires the binaries be installed afaik.

Chris
Post by Mladen Gogala
Actually, it doesn't. You can install SQL*Developer which contains
Oracle JDBC driver and can connect to almost anything newer than Oracle
8i. You can also install Instant*Client which is completely free and
also includes both JDBC and ODBC clients. Instant client contains
SQL*Plus. You can also install various open source GUI stuff on top of
the instant client. Most notable open source, GUI tools on top of the
instant client are DBeaver-CE, SQLSquirrel, Eclipse, DBD::Oracle and
Tora. SQL*Developer and SQLcl are free but not open source. I assure you
that all of the above can run Oracle queries.
Post by Chris Taylor
In my companies case a running database requires installed binaries -
which is a licensing concern.
--
Mladen Gogala
Database Consultant
Tel: (347) 321-1217
--
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
Mladen Gogala
2018-11-14 01:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Yes, you're right. I misread your reply as "running database queries
requires licenses". My apologies.
Post by Chris Taylor
Mladen,
I'm confused.  How does that apply to a running instance?  A running
instance requires the binaries be installed afaik.
Chris
--
Mladen Gogala
Database Consultant
Tel: (347) 321-1217

--
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
Stefan Knecht
2018-11-14 03:10:43 UTC
Permalink
I'm fairly certain that document has been around way before 2014 in one way
or another. Perhaps some other list members still have one of the previous
versions. I believe 2014 is just the last time this was updated. But I do
recall having dealt with these same guidelines earlier than that.

And according to the guide it depends on how many days per year the standby
was opened.

But just to clarify once more - YMMV (a lot) depending on whatever is
negotiated between you and the Oracle sales folks.
Post by Dave
https://www.oracle.com/assets/data-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf
So, forgive me, but am I correct in thinking that my hot standby server
now has to be licensed? And is supposed to have been since 2014?
Even though, as long as it wasn't open, a standby never had to be licensed
before 2014?
Dave
--
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
--
//
zztat - The Next-Gen Oracle Performance Monitoring and Reaction Framework!
Visit us at zztat.net | @zztat_oracle | fb.me/zztat | zztat.net/blog/
p***@gmail.com
2018-11-14 03:56:45 UTC
Permalink
Hah, just got a follow on Twitter from a company in the licensing consulting space. Coincidence? Perhaps but suspect this channel is being “watched” 😊



I recall the guidelines here also. I knew of a customer who kept the oracle home tar gzd (nothing installed). Backups shipped over the wire slowly to DR DC once per week. Archive logs shipped every 20 minutes. All rsync. Worked very well. Was simple and reliable. We would test the system twice a year and DB would only be running for a couple hours. Per the customer’s understanding this was all 100% legit and within bounds.



From: oracle-l-***@freelists.org <oracle-l-***@freelists.org> On Behalf Of Stefan Knecht
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 9:11 PM
To: ***@1001111.com
Cc: oracle-l-freelists <oracle-***@freelists.org>
Subject: Re: Re Oracle Licensing



I'm fairly certain that document has been around way before 2014 in one way or another. Perhaps some other list members still have one of the previous versions. I believe 2014 is just the last time this was updated. But I do recall having dealt with these same guidelines earlier than that.



And according to the guide it depends on how many days per year the standby was opened.



But just to clarify once more - YMMV (a lot) depending on whatever is negotiated between you and the Oracle sales folks.



zztat_oracle | <http://fb.me/zztat> fb.me/zztat | <http://zztat.net/blog/> zztat.net/blog/
Rich J
2018-11-14 14:28:46 UTC
Permalink
I recall the guidelines here also. I knew of a customer who kept the oracle home tar gzd (nothing installed). Backups shipped over the wire slowly to DR DC once per week. Archive logs shipped every 20 minutes. All rsync. Worked very well. Was simple and reliable. We would test the system twice a year and DB would only be running for a couple hours. Per the customer's understanding this was all 100% legit and within bounds.
I had argued that since our DR site is only storage until we fail over
that the binaries are not -- _CANNOT_ -- be "installed". Oracle
respectfully disagreed, saying the binaries are in the DR site, even
though the architecture of the DR replicating servers (x86) does not
match the architecture of the binaries (POWER) and therefore cannot be
"installed".

Instead of bringing legal into it, we exclude replication of the
binaries. The Oracle installation is part of our DR failover process,
with all of the implied complexities.

My $.02,
Rich
Stefan Knecht
2018-11-14 15:30:37 UTC
Permalink
Your primary is on x86 and your failover host is on POWER? Aren't they
different endianness?

Does that work?
Post by p***@gmail.com
I recall the guidelines here also. I knew of a customer who kept the
oracle home tar gzd (nothing installed). Backups shipped over the wire
slowly to DR DC once per week. Archive logs shipped every 20 minutes. All
rsync. Worked very well. Was simple and reliable. We would test the system
twice a year and DB would only be running for a couple hours. Per the
customer's understanding this was all 100% legit and within bounds.
I had argued that since our DR site is only storage until we fail over
that the binaries are not -- *CANNOT* -- be "installed". Oracle
respectfully disagreed, saying the binaries are in the DR site, even though
the architecture of the DR replicating servers (x86) does not match the
architecture of the binaries (POWER) and therefore cannot be "installed".
Instead of bringing legal into it, we exclude replication of the
binaries. The Oracle installation is part of our DR failover process, with
all of the implied complexities.
My $.02,
Rich
--
//
zztat - The Next-Gen Oracle Performance Monitoring and Reaction Framework!
Visit us at zztat.net | @zztat_oracle | fb.me/zztat | zztat.net/blog/
Rich J
2018-11-14 15:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Your primary is on x86 and your failover host is on POWER? Aren't they different endianness?
Does that work?
The servers that replicate the storage (SAN) to the DR site are x86.
When we failover, the replicated storage in DR gets attached to POWER
servers, just like the primary site.

Hopefully that's less confusing. It's certainly less expensive to use
x86 to replicate storage. ;)

Rich
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